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	<title>Comments on: Bar Stool Economics</title>
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	<description>Exploring the intersectio between personal faith and public life.</description>
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		<title>By: dannymichelle7499</title>
		<link>http://www.faithandfacts.com/economy/bar-stool-economics/comment-page-1/#comment-5955</link>
		<dc:creator>dannymichelle7499</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Oct 2011 13:03:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.faithandfacts.com/?p=1419#comment-5955</guid>
		<description>All those socialists whineng about how the rich guy gets rich off the welfare &#039;worker&#039; ... what risk did the welfare workers take - the 4  and then later, 5 that paid no taxes I mean got free beer didn&#039;t risk anything they put their blood, sweat or tears into building or creating or drinking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All those socialists whineng about how the rich guy gets rich off the welfare &#8216;worker&#8217; &#8230; what risk did the welfare workers take &#8211; the 4  and then later, 5 that paid no taxes I mean got free beer didn&#8217;t risk anything they put their blood, sweat or tears into building or creating or drinking.</p>
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		<title>By: Sourabh</title>
		<link>http://www.faithandfacts.com/economy/bar-stool-economics/comment-page-1/#comment-5787</link>
		<dc:creator>Sourabh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Sep 2011 15:56:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.faithandfacts.com/?p=1419#comment-5787</guid>
		<description>@Rick Hanion:

Awesome reply..... 

I know many people forget that income distribution. The beer economics is an illusion. Wealthy have got their wealth because those 1-5 works their assess off for the wealthy. Then middle those poor and middle class bought those products. All work and price money went to rich. 

This stupid beer economics doesn&#039;t mention that. .....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Rick Hanion:</p>
<p>Awesome reply&#8230;.. </p>
<p>I know many people forget that income distribution. The beer economics is an illusion. Wealthy have got their wealth because those 1-5 works their assess off for the wealthy. Then middle those poor and middle class bought those products. All work and price money went to rich. </p>
<p>This stupid beer economics doesn&#8217;t mention that. &#8230;..</p>
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		<title>By: Rick Hanlon II</title>
		<link>http://www.faithandfacts.com/economy/bar-stool-economics/comment-page-1/#comment-5695</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick Hanlon II</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jun 2011 21:36:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.faithandfacts.com/?p=1419#comment-5695</guid>
		<description>Though I agree that there are way too many people who pay no taxes, there are a few important issues with the analogy: 

One: Everyone is forced to go to the bar. It&#039;s a subtle difference, but makes an impact on the analogy. It corresponds to the idea that if you live here, you pay taxes here.

Two: They do not pinpoint exactly the extent of how rich everyone is. Guy number 10 is as wealthy as the other 9 guys combined, while guys 1-5 make only 10% of the total wealth.

That is, to scale, every day all 10 guys make about $580:

Person Makes
1-5 $74
6-7 $116
8-9 $124
10 $266 

Now, let&#039;s re-examine the data with this in mind. 

To pay for the bill equally ($10 each) would require:
Person Income Paid
1-5 67%
6-7 17%
8-9 16%
10 3.8%

Note: I know that no one is advocating dollar amount equality, but it is illustrative. 

Now, let&#039;s say that everyone is required to pay 17% of their income for the tab:
Person Pays
1-5 $12
6-7 $20
8-9 $22
10 $46 

Interesting. Now let&#039;s consider that, since 17% of income from person 1-5 significantly inhibits their ability to even make an income to begin with, persons 1-5 pay nothing. Then, the other 5 people pay 20%
Person Pays
1-5 $0 -12(16% of wealth)
6-7 $23 +3(2.5% of wealth)
8-9 $25 +3(2.4% of wealth)
10 $52 +6(2.25% of wealth)

Interesting. Even with the bottom 5 people paying nothing at all, the wealthiest person still pays LESS than in the current tax system. However, persons 6-9 pay more.

Now, let&#039;s say that the bill is reduced to $80 (maybe the bar owner gave up his 10 year feud with the neighboring bar owner). Then everyone would be required to pay 14%: 
Person Pays
1-5 $10
6-7 $16
8-9 $17
10 $37

Or, with person 1-5 paying nothing, 6-10 pay 16%
Person Pays
1-5 $0 -10(13.5% of wealth)
6-7 $18 +2(1.7% of wealth)
8-9 $19 +2(1.6% of wealth)
10 $43 +6(2.25% of wealth) 

So, as the data shows, a flat rate is certainly fair and the issue to argue is certainly not that the bottom 5 people pay nothing *When you consider the disproportionate amount of income each person makes*. 

Also, the crux of the article involves the middle and lower class complaining about not getting enough benefit out of the tax cut. No one is making this argument. The argument is in cutting the upper incomes taxes exclusively. That is the notion of &#039;trickle down&#039;. It would be like giving all 20$ to only the tenth man (a 34% savings!) . It is laughably ridiculous, and that would certainly cause the men to become outraged outside. They would argue &quot;We are forced to come to this bar, and we pay our fair share, but you get to pay less because you make the most!? That is ridiculous!&quot; 

The analogy confuses, as everyone on the for-rich-tax-breaks camp does, the difference between paying a fair percentage and the corresponding dollar amount. Of course the top 10% will pay 60% of the taxes when the top 10% makes over 60% of the income! 

There are too many people though that think they are educated by facts and are actually falling into the propaganda trap. 

This was fun. What do you think?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Though I agree that there are way too many people who pay no taxes, there are a few important issues with the analogy: </p>
<p>One: Everyone is forced to go to the bar. It&#8217;s a subtle difference, but makes an impact on the analogy. It corresponds to the idea that if you live here, you pay taxes here.</p>
<p>Two: They do not pinpoint exactly the extent of how rich everyone is. Guy number 10 is as wealthy as the other 9 guys combined, while guys 1-5 make only 10% of the total wealth.</p>
<p>That is, to scale, every day all 10 guys make about $580:</p>
<p>Person Makes<br />
1-5 $74<br />
6-7 $116<br />
8-9 $124<br />
10 $266 </p>
<p>Now, let&#8217;s re-examine the data with this in mind. </p>
<p>To pay for the bill equally ($10 each) would require:<br />
Person Income Paid<br />
1-5 67%<br />
6-7 17%<br />
8-9 16%<br />
10 3.8%</p>
<p>Note: I know that no one is advocating dollar amount equality, but it is illustrative. </p>
<p>Now, let&#8217;s say that everyone is required to pay 17% of their income for the tab:<br />
Person Pays<br />
1-5 $12<br />
6-7 $20<br />
8-9 $22<br />
10 $46 </p>
<p>Interesting. Now let&#8217;s consider that, since 17% of income from person 1-5 significantly inhibits their ability to even make an income to begin with, persons 1-5 pay nothing. Then, the other 5 people pay 20%<br />
Person Pays<br />
1-5 $0 -12(16% of wealth)<br />
6-7 $23 +3(2.5% of wealth)<br />
8-9 $25 +3(2.4% of wealth)<br />
10 $52 +6(2.25% of wealth)</p>
<p>Interesting. Even with the bottom 5 people paying nothing at all, the wealthiest person still pays LESS than in the current tax system. However, persons 6-9 pay more.</p>
<p>Now, let&#8217;s say that the bill is reduced to $80 (maybe the bar owner gave up his 10 year feud with the neighboring bar owner). Then everyone would be required to pay 14%:<br />
Person Pays<br />
1-5 $10<br />
6-7 $16<br />
8-9 $17<br />
10 $37</p>
<p>Or, with person 1-5 paying nothing, 6-10 pay 16%<br />
Person Pays<br />
1-5 $0 -10(13.5% of wealth)<br />
6-7 $18 +2(1.7% of wealth)<br />
8-9 $19 +2(1.6% of wealth)<br />
10 $43 +6(2.25% of wealth) </p>
<p>So, as the data shows, a flat rate is certainly fair and the issue to argue is certainly not that the bottom 5 people pay nothing *When you consider the disproportionate amount of income each person makes*. </p>
<p>Also, the crux of the article involves the middle and lower class complaining about not getting enough benefit out of the tax cut. No one is making this argument. The argument is in cutting the upper incomes taxes exclusively. That is the notion of &#8216;trickle down&#8217;. It would be like giving all 20$ to only the tenth man (a 34% savings!) . It is laughably ridiculous, and that would certainly cause the men to become outraged outside. They would argue &#8220;We are forced to come to this bar, and we pay our fair share, but you get to pay less because you make the most!? That is ridiculous!&#8221; </p>
<p>The analogy confuses, as everyone on the for-rich-tax-breaks camp does, the difference between paying a fair percentage and the corresponding dollar amount. Of course the top 10% will pay 60% of the taxes when the top 10% makes over 60% of the income! </p>
<p>There are too many people though that think they are educated by facts and are actually falling into the propaganda trap. </p>
<p>This was fun. What do you think?</p>
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		<title>By: Towel Rails ·</title>
		<link>http://www.faithandfacts.com/economy/bar-stool-economics/comment-page-1/#comment-1787</link>
		<dc:creator>Towel Rails ·</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Nov 2010 19:25:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.faithandfacts.com/?p=1419#comment-1787</guid>
		<description>bar stools that are made from stainless steel are the best because they don&#039;t tarnish often ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>bar stools that are made from stainless steel are the best because they don&#8217;t tarnish often &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Tungsten Carbide :</title>
		<link>http://www.faithandfacts.com/economy/bar-stool-economics/comment-page-1/#comment-1755</link>
		<dc:creator>Tungsten Carbide :</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Oct 2010 09:29:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.faithandfacts.com/?p=1419#comment-1755</guid>
		<description>bar stools should always be made from stainless steel or chrome plated metals for durability.*-</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>bar stools should always be made from stainless steel or chrome plated metals for durability.*-</p>
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		<title>By: The Angry White Guy » Blog Archive » The truth of FDR legacy</title>
		<link>http://www.faithandfacts.com/economy/bar-stool-economics/comment-page-1/#comment-561</link>
		<dc:creator>The Angry White Guy » Blog Archive » The truth of FDR legacy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Jul 2009 12:49:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.faithandfacts.com/?p=1419#comment-561</guid>
		<description>[...] how the Democrats can exploit the tax cuts for the rick argument, it is no better defined than in Our Tax System Explained: Bar Stool Economics  Go read it now, I&#8217;ll wait here &#8230;. ok you&#8217;re back let&#8217;s [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] how the Democrats can exploit the tax cuts for the rick argument, it is no better defined than in Our Tax System Explained: Bar Stool Economics  Go read it now, I&#8217;ll wait here &#8230;. ok you&#8217;re back let&#8217;s [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Erik Hanson</title>
		<link>http://www.faithandfacts.com/economy/bar-stool-economics/comment-page-1/#comment-560</link>
		<dc:creator>Erik Hanson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 20:19:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.faithandfacts.com/?p=1419#comment-560</guid>
		<description>Wow, a lot of people here seem to be under the impression that those *evil rich people* just created their riches out of thin air by enslaving the poor.

Who would have guessed that by lowering the bar bill that the tenth guy pays, he actually ends up hiring two of the others to help him carry the beers for the group. You can probably think up some other witty beer-related analogy related to the rich owning businesses, including many of the small businesses that make up the bulk of American jobs, and how we&#039;re really punishing some of the hardest-working members of our society, and thus ourselves, with this asinine tax system.

And finally for those complaining about the poor lower classes, it&#039;s not like welfare just emerged in January 2009, again, out of thin air. Anyone, no matter their income level, should be able to leave a legacy to their children. Instead of using their negative tax payments to get out of debt, saving up for their kids&#039; college and their own retirement, and leaving an inheritance so their kids have it better off than they did, it seems like the poor are content to stay where they are at financially, wait for a handout from the tenth guy on one side, and spend 100% of their earnings on &quot;essentials&quot; like payday loans, iPhones, HBO, and beer, using the other hand.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, a lot of people here seem to be under the impression that those *evil rich people* just created their riches out of thin air by enslaving the poor.</p>
<p>Who would have guessed that by lowering the bar bill that the tenth guy pays, he actually ends up hiring two of the others to help him carry the beers for the group. You can probably think up some other witty beer-related analogy related to the rich owning businesses, including many of the small businesses that make up the bulk of American jobs, and how we&#8217;re really punishing some of the hardest-working members of our society, and thus ourselves, with this asinine tax system.</p>
<p>And finally for those complaining about the poor lower classes, it&#8217;s not like welfare just emerged in January 2009, again, out of thin air. Anyone, no matter their income level, should be able to leave a legacy to their children. Instead of using their negative tax payments to get out of debt, saving up for their kids&#8217; college and their own retirement, and leaving an inheritance so their kids have it better off than they did, it seems like the poor are content to stay where they are at financially, wait for a handout from the tenth guy on one side, and spend 100% of their earnings on &#8220;essentials&#8221; like payday loans, iPhones, HBO, and beer, using the other hand.</p>
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		<title>By: Dr.Bruce</title>
		<link>http://www.faithandfacts.com/economy/bar-stool-economics/comment-page-1/#comment-559</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr.Bruce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 20:21:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.faithandfacts.com/?p=1419#comment-559</guid>
		<description>touche</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>touche</p>
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		<title>By: Dr.Bruce</title>
		<link>http://www.faithandfacts.com/economy/bar-stool-economics/comment-page-1/#comment-558</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr.Bruce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 20:21:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.faithandfacts.com/?p=1419#comment-558</guid>
		<description>Wow Bret, you seem to genuinely want Socialism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow Bret, you seem to genuinely want Socialism.</p>
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		<title>By: Dr.Bruce</title>
		<link>http://www.faithandfacts.com/economy/bar-stool-economics/comment-page-1/#comment-557</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr.Bruce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 20:19:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.faithandfacts.com/?p=1419#comment-557</guid>
		<description>Instead of &#039;bait-and-switch&#039; perhaps we should call it &#039;tax-spend-and-switch.&#039;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Instead of &#8216;bait-and-switch&#8217; perhaps we should call it &#8216;tax-spend-and-switch.&#8217;</p>
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